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Post by gljbradley on Mar 6, 2019 5:13:33 GMT -8
It's awesome how Doug is so dedicated to the role like that, reprising Pinhead for things like MTV (back when they were good) and also on talk show appearances. I recall he appeared in-character on The Tonight Show back in the 90s and I'm trying to find the clips but so far no luck. I'm sure someday it'll surface. Recently I bought the excellent book on the series, The Hellraiser Films And Their Legacy. It covers up to Hellworld and though sadly lacking in pictures for the most part it's loaded with excellent information on the making of the films and goes very in-depth on their themes that makes you look at them in a new way. It comes highly recommended, especially if you're a fan of the series. I recently also had a chance to revisit Bloodline, Inferno and Hellseeker. Bloodline I feel is excellent during the past and present segments but the future stuff is silly and feels out of place amidst the rest of the movie and even looks cheap and low-rent; a surefire sign they were last-minute reshoots that had no real thought put into them. Plus, why is Pinhead his bloodthirsty self from the third film when he should be more like he was in the first two, since he supposedly was re-joined with Elliott Spencer's spirit? Made no sense. I actually quite like Inferno, basically a dark noir thriller that somehow manages to fit in just fine with the Hellraiser mythos. Hellseeker I found pretty boring for the most part, though it does have one of my favorite Pinhead quotes: "Welcome to the worst nightmare of all... reality." I agree! That clip you shared and his appearance on The Tonight Show were awesome! In fact, I remember when it first happened. I forgot who in my family was watching The Tonight Show at the time but I was in the room when he happens to appear and I was both a little creeped out and amazed. I also hope that that clip shows up someday. I was trying to look for it online one time and couldn't find it. That sounds like an awesome book! Where did you buy the book? I might buy a copy as well. You brought up some excellent points about Bloodline. I was confused and disappointed that they basically did away with the Elliott Spencer/Pinhead plot point. That has always bothered me. They should've gone further with that. And I agree that the past and present segments were great but the future segment felt disjointed. To me, the future segment felt like a completely different film altogether. It didn't mesh very well with the first two segments. As you said, it felt silly and off. The reshoots they did really didn't help the entire situation because of the way the film and the story were being handled. I've seen Hellseeker a few times and I like it. But I haven't seen Inferno yet and I've heard good things about it. |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Mar 6, 2019 13:53:14 GMT -8
I'm sure someone must have his Tonight Show appearance recorded. I recall Doug also reprised Pinhead a few times back on MTV during Spring Break. Hopefully someday this all surfaces. I recall around the time Hellraiser III came out was definitely when the character hit his height of popularity and there was something of an attempt to have him as the new Freddy. They thankfully wisely avoided the mistake of making him cartoony and jokey like Freddy became in so many of the later ANOES sequels, and Pinhead always remained sinister and serious. I got mine from Barnes & Noble, an employee helped me order it. You could probably still get it from Amazon.com, and it's well worth it. All sorts of great information and anecdotes shared. It'd be great to someday get an updated version covering the newer films and with more images. I have hope one day we'll see the original cut of Bloodline, which I'm sure was better than what we got, which is still a pretty good movie for the most part in need of some fine-tuning. I was disappointed that it didn't pick up more from the plot threads of the prior movies, like what happened to Joey and Kirsty? What became of the new Cenobites from the third movie? Was the good side of Elliott Spencer completely done away with? Perhaps the original cut answered all of this. The future aspects felt like they were part of the reshoots and just didn't mesh with the rest of the movie at all and even suspciously feel like they were last-minute additions to the overall piece. I love the Chatterer Beast though who's one of my favorite Cenobites. Inferno is well worth a watch, provided you don't go in expecting it to be Pinhead-centric like 3 and 4 were. Also stumbled onto these very cool trading cards. Looks like they came out circa 1992 which would've been right around the same time Hellraiser III came out. Some of those stills I've never seen anywhere before. I'd love to own the complete set. |
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Post by gljbradley on Mar 9, 2019 7:50:40 GMT -8
I'm sure someone must have his Tonight Show appearance recorded. I recall Doug also reprised Pinhead a few times back on MTV during Spring Break. Hopefully someday this all surfaces. I recall around the time Hellraiser III came out was definitely when the character hit his height of popularity and there was something of an attempt to have him as the new Freddy. They thankfully wisely avoided the mistake of making him cartoony and jokey like Freddy became in so many of the later ANOES sequels, and Pinhead always remained sinister and serious. I got mine from Barnes & Noble, an employee helped me order it. You could probably still get it from Amazon.com, and it's well worth it. All sorts of great information and anecdotes shared. It'd be great to someday get an updated version covering the newer films and with more images. I have hope one day we'll see the original cut of Bloodline, which I'm sure was better than what we got, which is still a pretty good movie for the most part in need of some fine-tuning. I was disappointed that it didn't pick up more from the plot threads of the prior movies, like what happened to Joey and Kirsty? What became of the new Cenobites from the third movie? Was the good side of Elliott Spencer completely done away with? Perhaps the original cut answered all of this. The future aspects felt like they were part of the reshoots and just didn't mesh with the rest of the movie at all and even suspiciously feel like they were last-minute additions to the overall piece. I love the Chatterer Beast though who's one of my favorite Cenobites. Inferno is well worth a watch, provided you don't go in expecting it to be Pinhead-centric like 3 and 4 were. Also stumbled onto these very cool trading cards. Looks like they came out circa 1992 which would've been right around the same time Hellraiser III came out. Some of those stills I've never seen anywhere before. I'd love to own the complete set. That would be great if someone had managed to record that and put that somewhere online. And you're right. Around the third film, the character's popularity was rising and at its peak. That's awesome! I'll check Amazon and maybe some other websites. Same here. I also wonder about things like if they have done away with Elliot Spencer and what became of Kirsty and Joey. This is why Bloodline is disjointed from the first three films and feel like a completely different film altogether. |
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Post by gljbradley on Mar 9, 2019 7:54:55 GMT -8
I'm sure someone must have his Tonight Show appearance recorded. I recall Doug also reprised Pinhead a few times back on MTV during Spring Break. Hopefully someday this all surfaces. I recall around the time Hellraiser III came out was definitely when the character hit his height of popularity and there was something of an attempt to have him as the new Freddy. They thankfully wisely avoided the mistake of making him cartoony and jokey like Freddy became in so many of the later ANOES sequels, and Pinhead always remained sinister and serious. I got mine from Barnes & Noble, an employee helped me order it. You could probably still get it from Amazon.com, and it's well worth it. All sorts of great information and anecdotes shared. It'd be great to someday get an updated version covering the newer films and with more images. I have hope one day we'll see the original cut of Bloodline, which I'm sure was better than what we got, which is still a pretty good movie for the most part in need of some fine-tuning. I was disappointed that it didn't pick up more from the plot threads of the prior movies, like what happened to Joey and Kirsty? What became of the new Cenobites from the third movie? Was the good side of Elliott Spencer completely done away with? Perhaps the original cut answered all of this. The future aspects felt like they were part of the reshoots and just didn't mesh with the rest of the movie at all and even suspiciously feel like they were last-minute additions to the overall piece. I love the Chatterer Beast though who's one of my favorite Cenobites. Inferno is well worth a watch, provided you don't go in expecting it to be Pinhead-centric like 3 and 4 were. Also stumbled onto these very cool trading cards. Looks like they came out circa 1992 which would've been right around the same time Hellraiser III came out. Some of those stills I've never seen anywhere before. I'd love to own the complete set. I'm looking through the cards provided by the link and they are fascinating! I've never seen these before either. |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Mar 9, 2019 14:05:31 GMT -8
I vaguely remember the previews for Hellraiser III back in 1992, between that and Pinhead's television appearances. I actually managed to find a few commercials on YouTube and they're a neat find for sure (not to mention a cool trip down memory lane). Someone must have Pinhead's Tonight Show appearance and his various other MTV ones recorded.
(starts at 4:52)
(two here, first is at 3:19 and the second one starts at 26:25)
The book is well worth owning and reading for sure. I'm still going through it and it's one of those books you kinda don't want it to end because it's so engrossing and you learn a lot of things you didn't even know about. Just wish it had more images in it. It'd be an awesome to get a Hellraiser book like Crystal Lake Memories for Friday The 13th, with both extensive production anecdotes and images. I get it'd be far more expensive but for devout fans it'd be well worth it.
I got to read through the book's section on Bloodline, but I got to wonder if originally when Bloodline was conceived if it was supposed to be a more direct sequel to the first three? It didn't really have the same linkage the first three movies shared which made it feel disjointed despite the inclusion of the building with the Lament Configuration's design, and the box itself in the concrete. Not even so much a mention as to what became of Kirsty and Joey. I wonder if originally they were supposed to be in it before the revisions? It's possible.
I'd sure like to own those cards. A collectible shop not too far from me has a bunch of trading cards but I'm not sure if they have the Hellraiser series, although I'll definitely look next time I'm there. It seems it was also around the time of Hellraiser III's release the merchandising for the series started to pick up.
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Post by gljbradley on Mar 11, 2019 8:55:03 GMT -8
I vaguely remember the previews for Hellraiser III back in 1992, between that and Pinhead's television appearances. I actually managed to find a few commercials on YouTube and they're a neat find for sure (not to mention a cool trip down memory lane). Someone must have Pinhead's Tonight Show appearance and his various other MTV ones recorded. (starts at 4:52) (two here, first is at 3:19 and the second one starts at 26:25) The book is well worth owning and reading for sure. I'm still going through it and it's one of those books you kinda don't want it to end because it's so engrossing and you learn a lot of things you didn't even know about. Just wish it had more images in it. It'd be an awesome to get a Hellraiser book like Crystal Lake Memories for Friday The 13th, with both extensive production anecdotes and images. I get it'd be far more expensive but for devout fans it'd be well worth it. I got to read through the book's section on Bloodline, but I got to wonder if originally when Bloodline was conceived if it was supposed to be a more direct sequel to the first three? It didn't really have the same linkage the first three movies shared which made it feel disjointed despite the inclusion of the building with the Lament Configuration's design, and the box itself in the concrete. Not even so much a mention as to what became of Kirsty and Joey. I wonder if originally they were supposed to be in it before the revisions? It's possible. I'd sure like to own those cards. A collectible shop not too far from me has a bunch of trading cards but I'm not sure if they have the Hellraiser series, although I'll definitely look next time I'm there. It seems it was also around the time of Hellraiser III's release the merchandising for the series started to pick up. Looking at these videos makes me feel nostalgic. I sometimes wish that we could go back to those times where commercials were more fun and energetic. Those Hellraiser III commercials were awesome!!! Thank you for sharing these! |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Mar 11, 2019 11:35:25 GMT -8
Sure thing. It's sure a blast from the past seeing these old 90s commercials, really makes me miss that decade and my childhood during it. I've been on a bit of a 90s nostalgia binge as of late looking at old commercials from that time and it really takes me back. I wonder if the first commercial I posted airing during a kids' programming block? I notice it seems mixed in with kids' commercials. Pretty hilarious that a preview for such a violent, scary movie like Hellraiser III would've been included during a commercial block aimed at kids. Goes to show how much more loose and that much more awesome the 90s was. Would've been something for kids back then to be watching their afternoon cartoons when suddenly Pinhead shows up during the commercial break  |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Mar 18, 2019 15:33:39 GMT -8
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Post by gljbradley on Mar 18, 2019 15:37:53 GMT -8
I've seen this before. This is great! |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Mar 18, 2019 15:41:36 GMT -8
Goes to show the cultural impact characters like Pinhead have had.
I watched Hell On Earth again last night (part of my 90s movie viewing, been nostalgic for my 90s childhood and definitely have much nostalgia for this film). For sheer entertainment it's easily my favorite of the series and maybe some fans don't like the comic book like-style and asthetic of it but I really enjoy how it really does in many ways almost feel like it could've been a TFTC Presents movie. It'd make for a most suitable pairing with Demon Knight.
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Post by gljbradley on Mar 18, 2019 16:01:58 GMT -8
Goes to show the cultural impact characters like Pinhead have had. I watched Hell On Earth again last night (part of my 90s movie viewing, been nostalgic for my 90s childhood and definitely have much nostalgia for this film). For sheer entertainment it's easily my favorite of the series and maybe some fans don't like the comic book like-style and aesthetic of it but I really enjoy how it really does in many ways almost feel like it could've been a TFTC Presents movie. It'd make for a most suitable pairing with Demon Knight. You bet! And I think Hellraiser III and Demon Knight together are AWESOME as double features for TFTC and movie night. |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Mar 18, 2019 16:07:30 GMT -8
That makes me think how cool it'd be to see Pinhead and his Cenobite posse against The Collector and his demon horde. I think Pinhead wins this one easily for sure, but it'd still be an entertaining battle to see. Wonder how Brayker might hold his own against Pinhead.
If you cut the first three Hellraiser movies as one seamless, epic-length movie then right there you'd have a good TFTC Presents movie. Just needs bookends from Crypty to make it official.
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Apr 11, 2019 13:17:38 GMT -8
Looking at some of the Hellraiser fan fiction out there that has Joey, apparently Joey and Elliott (not as Pinhead) is a fairly popular relationship and some even go so far as to have Joey be pregnant with Elliott's child. As is, in the original Hellraiser III script, there's an implied love scene though it never goes beyond that and was never filmed. But it got me thinking as to how we could've gotten a better version of Bloodline.
While I think Bloodline is pretty good, it still has that feeling of not being connected enough with the first three for some reason, despite the tie-ins (the building with the design of the box and the concrete where the box is found in). I think a far better way to have done the story would've been to set it a few years after the third movie, maybe 5 or 6. Joey has moved on with her life and is still a reporter, but still troubled by the memories of her ordeal (who wouldn't be?). I like the idea that she has Elliott Spencer's child and sometime after the events of Hell On Earth became pregnant and gave birth. She's juggling life as both a reporter and single mother to her young child (let's say it's a boy), and while she's never gone public about her ordeal she's still haunted by it and wants to uncover more about the origins of the Cenobites and the Lament Configuration. Using her investigative reporting skills she uncovers the origin of the box (which is where the past flashbacks showing the creation of LeMerchand's box could still come into play). Somehow she meets with Kirsty during this time, the latter of whom has been released from the asylum and is trying to put her life back together. Joey and Kirsty together learn the mystery and origin of the box. Presumably the ending of the third movie could also be concurrent around this time, where we see LeMarchand's building with the box's design. This is where LeMerchand's descendant John still comes into the story. Joey and Kirsty learn of his building in Manhattan around the same time as Angelique. They race to make it there and this is of course where Pinhead comes into play all over again. I think from here anything can go with the story.
The more I think about it the more I really wish they'd gone with something like this for Bloodline, and it's unfortunate they didn't. I still like Bloodline well enough but damn, it could've been a classic of the series had they gone with a storyline like this. Do away with the silly futuristic stuff but still keep the flashbacks showing the box's origin and creation. Joey and Kirsty with their team-up which is where we learn of the box's origin, and I think the whole bloodline aspect would've been better represented with not just the LeMerchand Family still featuring but also Joey having a child of her own where Elliott Spencer is the father, which helps create a twisted family dynamic with Pinhead and Joey. It also creates quite the triangle between Pinhead, Joey and Kirsty, fitting with the Hellraiser themes of forbidden lust, with Pinhead divided between his two halves between both women.
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Post by gljbradley on Apr 11, 2019 21:58:04 GMT -8
Looking at some of the Hellraiser fan fiction out there that has Joey, apparently Joey and Elliott (not as Pinhead) is a fairly popular relationship and some even go so far as to have Joey be pregnant with Elliott's child. As is, in the original Hellraiser III script, there's an implied love scene though it never goes beyond that and was never filmed. But it got me thinking as to how we could've gotten a better version of Bloodline. While I think Bloodline is pretty good, it still has that feeling of not being connected enough with the first three for some reason, despite the tie-ins (the building with the design of the box and the concrete where the box is found in). I think a far better way to have done the story would've been to set it a few years after the third movie, maybe 5 or 6. Joey has moved on with her life and is still a reporter, but still troubled by the memories of her ordeal (who wouldn't be?). I like the idea that she has Elliott Spencer's child and sometime after the events of Hell On Earth became pregnant and gave birth. She's juggling life as both a reporter and single mother to her young child (let's say it's a boy), and while she's never gone public about her ordeal she's still haunted by it and wants to uncover more about the origins of the Cenobites and the Lament Configuration. Using her investigative reporting skills she uncovers the origin of the box (which is where the past flashbacks showing the creation of LeMerchand's box could still come into play). Somehow she meets with Kirsty during this time, the latter of whom has been released from the asylum and is trying to put her life back together. Joey and Kirsty together learn the mystery and origin of the box. Presumably the ending of the third movie could also be concurrent around this time, where we see LeMarchand's building with the box's design. This is where LeMerchand's descendant John still comes into the story. Joey and Kirsty learn of his building in Manhattan around the same time as Angelique. They race to make it there and this is of course where Pinhead comes into play all over again. I think from here anything can go with the story. The more I think about it the more I really wish they'd gone with something like this for Bloodline, and it's unfortunate they didn't. I still like Bloodline well enough but damn, it could've been a classic of the series had they gone with a storyline like this. Do away with the silly futuristic stuff but still keep the flashbacks showing the box's origin and creation. Joey and Kirsty with their team-up which is where we learn of the box's origin, and I think the whole bloodline aspect would've been better represented with not just the LeMerchand Family still featuring but also Joey having a child of her own where Elliott Spencer is the father, which helps create a twisted family dynamic with Pinhead and Joey. It also creates quite the triangle between Pinhead, Joey and Kirsty, fitting with the Hellraiser themes of forbidden lust, with Pinhead divided between his two halves between both women. Same here, my friend. I remember reading a Hellraiser fan fic involving Joey and Elliott. It was interesting and surprisingly adorable. It's one of those odd couples that somehow work so well. Wow! Those sound like something pretty cool ideas! |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Apr 11, 2019 22:03:34 GMT -8
Who knows if the fourth film was originally planned to have some material like this but for whatever reason they opted not to use it. A real shame.
Joey and Elliott make for a surprisingly good couple. It would've been interesting to see them go that route in the film series. Joey and Elliott actually seem to be a surprisingly popular couple among some Hellraiser fans. I like the idea that Joey has his child, which in itself opens up a lot of routes for the series to go in the future.
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