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Post by Crypt Keeper on Dec 20, 2018 23:55:33 GMT -8
Figured it'd be good to have a topic for this since it was beginning to form it's own discussion within the TFTC Presents Horror films thread. Wonder if there's any other fans of the Hellraiser series here, and not just the films but also media outside it which includes the original Hellbound Heart novella and the vast array of comics. I've been getting more into the series lately after marathoning the first three movies this past Halloween as part of my annual Halloween Horror viewing and forgot what a good trilogy the original three movies were. It's pretty amazing how despite how vastly different each of them were from each other they still worked and still felt like they existed in the same series and universe, and it seems sadly after Hellraiser III the continuity was something that went out the window. It's been forever since I watched any of the films past the third and I recall I actually haven't even seen some of the last few, but from the looks of things the series took a bad tumble downhill which looked to reach an absolute low point with the abysmal-looking Hellraiser: Revelations. Talk about how the mighty have fallen  Pinhead is definitely an icon and among my favorite of the major Horror villains. As elegant as he is horrific. My personal favorite of the series for sheer enjoyment is Hellraiser III, which in many ways almost has the feel of a live-action Horror comic and a bit of that TFTC/EC Comics vibe, which perhaps may have been intentional. Just recently I acquired an awesome book called the Hellraiser Chronicles which came out back in 1992 around the same time as Hellraiser III and covers up to the first three movies, which is fine by me as those are definitely the best ones by a long shot to me. Lots of great images and information. The series someday deserves to make a proper comeback with a good movie to get it back on the rails. |
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Post by gljbradley on Dec 21, 2018 0:45:15 GMT -8
Yeah. Hellraiser is a great film and a genuinely horrifying. It was one of those films that were way ahead of their time. It was a story of family drama, corruption with the soul, and body horror. It has a good balance of horror and drama. Also, to me, compared to the other well-known horror franchises like Halloween, Friday the 13th, and A Nightmare on Elm Street, it's rather underrated.
Yes, Pinhead is elegant as he is horrific. He's terrifying while at the same time, hypnotizing.
In fact, in the original film, if you think about it, Pinhead wasn't truly the main villain in this film. It was Frank and Julia. The only reason that Pinhead became involved is due to Frank's degenerately lustful desires. In hindsight, Pinhead and his minions were only doing their jobs, even though they kinda walked back on their deal with Kirsty to let her go after she lead them to Frank and they finally got him back, and still tried to take her with them as well. Good thing Kirsty is a quick thinker.
Yeah, I think that compared to other horror franchises, this one almost doesn't get enough love.
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Dec 21, 2018 0:55:18 GMT -8
It's pretty amazing how vastly different each of the original three movies were and yet they still worked in the same series. The first was a twisted romantic thriller and family drama, the second a dark fantasy and the third a high-energy comic book adventure. Such drastically differing approaches wouldn't work normally, but yet Hellraiser pulled it off and each of them totally felt unique and had their own identity. It's so easy for other Horror series to fall into the trap of more of the same, and Hellraiser avoided that to a point.
Definitely agree how in the first two films Pinhead wasn't truly the main villain or antagonist, it was Frank and Julia rather and in some ways they're arguably worse than Pinhead is himself, though Pinhead certainly isn't a nice guy and I enjoyed seeing him take center stage as the main villain in Hellraiser III. He's horrific and ghastly, but at the same time has an undeniable elegance and sophistication to him that makes him such a cut above many standard Horror villains.
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Post by gljbradley on Dec 21, 2018 18:11:42 GMT -8
It's pretty amazing how vastly different each of the original three movies were and yet they still worked in the same series. The first was a twisted romantic thriller and family drama, the second a dark fantasy and the third a high-energy comic book adventure. Such drastically differing approaches wouldn't work normally, but yet Hellraiser pulled it off and each of them totally felt unique and had their own identity. It's so easy for other Horror series to fall into the trap of more of the same, and Hellraiser avoided that to a point. Definitely agree how in the first two films Pinhead wasn't truly the main villain or antagonist, it was Frank and Julia rather and in some ways they're arguably worse than Pinhead is himself, though Pinhead certainly isn't a nice guy and I enjoyed seeing him take center stage as the main villain in Hellraiser III. He's horrific and ghastly, but at the same time has an undeniable elegance and sophistication to him that makes him such a cut above many standard Horror villains. You're right! The first three films did have different approaches that somehow worked so well together. I wouldn't call the first one romantic per se because all that was was lust. But it was definitely a twisted horror/thriller and family drama. Oh no. Pinhead is definitely isn't a nice guy by any comparison. Though, unlike a lot of horror icons, you can kinda bargain with him. Still, he might walk back on his deal with you. While Freddy Krueger has swagger, Pinhead as elegance and sophistication. |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Dec 21, 2018 23:05:46 GMT -8
The fact each of the first three movies felt like they co-existed in the same universe and canon despite how different they were from one another is a testament to how well-crafted they were. It's such a shame how after Hellraiser III the continuity seemed to go out the window, though perhaps the initial version of Bloodline before the studio meddling was better connected with the original three. I haven't seen Bloodline in so long. It had such a difficult, troubled production.
Pinhead of the first two movies, sure. But Pinhead in Hellraiser III when he's a full-blown bloodthirsty maniac, probably not. That was the movie that really cemented him as an iconic figure and one of Horror's most fearsome villains. I always enjoyed that aspect of the third film, the man vs. monster duality with Elliott Spencer's soul and the unbound Pinhead who's free to indulge in his bloodlust. A smart way to keep the series going and have Pinhead work as the newly central antagonist.
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Post by gljbradley on Dec 22, 2018 20:15:55 GMT -8
The fact each of the first three movies felt like they co-existed in the same universe and canon despite how different they were from one another is a testament to how well-crafted they were. It's such a shame how after Hellraiser III the continuity seemed to go out the window, though perhaps the initial version of Bloodline before the studio meddling was better connected with the original three. I haven't seen Bloodline in so long. It had such a difficult, troubled production. Pinhead of the first two movies, sure. But Pinhead in Hellraiser III when he's a full-blown bloodthirsty maniac, probably not. That was the movie that really cemented him as an iconic figure and one of Horror's most fearsome villains. I always enjoyed that aspect of the third film, the man vs. monster duality with Elliott Spencer's soul and the unbound Pinhead who's free to indulge in his bloodlust. A smart way to keep the series going and have Pinhead work as the newly central antagonist. Absolutely. The first three films are incredible! They truly were well-crafted and in a twisted way, very beautiful. It's like after the third film, it all went down the drain. Bloodline did have a difficult, troubled production and it showed in the film. SMH. Pinhead was deflinitely a maniac in the third one. Actually, he was so diabolical, it was funny at times. And I also love the man vs monster duality between Elliott Spencer and Pinhead. And I love that we saw a little bit of that in the second film which further helps connect the first three films altogether. |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Dec 22, 2018 23:03:52 GMT -8
Usually for any other film series and especially Horror, straying too far from the formula is usually a recipe for disaster but that proved quite the opposite for Hellraiser. Of course the original wasn't a typical Horror film so in a way it allowed the sequels to go a different route and do creative things with the concept, since the original's storyline wasn't exactly something that leant itself to a sequel. They got graphic and horrific with their imagery, sure, but there still a certain twisted sort of artistry and even beauty to them. That's something you rarely if ever see in Horror films anymore these days, and something that made the original three movies that much more special.
I really need to re-visit Bloodline again one day and have been wanting to. It's such a shame about the difficult production it had and the studio meddling. I hope one day the original unaltered cut of the film surfaces someday, and I'd imagine it must've been quite different from the film we got. It's been so long I feel I can't fairly judge it from a hazy memory, but I recall it was pretty overly ambitious and probably too much for it's own good. I remember the fifth film, Inferno, was surprisingly not bad but sort of felt like it had the Hellraiser name slapped onto it for commercial reasons rather than it being truly a part of the mythos.
I know some fans didn't like how Pinhead in some ways became more of a conventional Horror villain in Hellraiser III and sort of like the new Freddy in a way, but I think it worked given that the storyline at it's core was about Spencer vs. Pinhead and the need for the latter to be completely full-blown evil to emphasize the difference between the two. Although he had more one-liners he never became an outright clown as Freddy did in some of the later ANOES sequels.
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Post by gljbradley on Dec 25, 2018 10:56:38 GMT -8
Usually for any other film series and especially Horror, straying too far from the formula is usually a recipe for disaster but that proved quite the opposite for Hellraiser. Of course the original wasn't a typical Horror film so in a way it allowed the sequels to go a different route and do creative things with the concept since the original's storyline wasn't exactly something that leaned itself to a sequel. They got graphic and horrific with their imagery, sure, but they're still a certain twisted sort of artistry and even beauty to them. That's something you rarely if ever see in Horror films anymore these days, and something that made the original three movies that much more special. I really need to re-visit Bloodline again one day and have been wanting to. It's such a shame about the difficult production it had and the studio meddling. I hope one day the original unaltered cut of the film surfaces someday, and I'd imagine it must've been quite different from the film we got. It's been so long I feel I can't fairly judge it from a hazy memory, but I recall it was pretty overly ambitious and probably too much for its own good. I remember the fifth film, Inferno, was surprisingly not bad but sort of felt like it had the Hellraiser name slapped onto it for commercial reasons rather than it is truly a part of the mythos. I know some fans didn't like how Pinhead in some ways became more of a conventional Horror villain in Hellraiser III and sort of like the new Freddy in a way, but I think it worked given that the storyline at its core was about Spencer vs. Pinhead and the need for the latter to be completely full-blown evil to emphasize the difference between the two. Although he had more one-liners he never became an outright clown as Freddy did in some of the later ANOES sequels. Totally! That shows right there that Horror, in general, is extremely versatile and it worked very well for the Hellraiser films. I hope that that kind of artistry will return in some way to the genre someday. I hope so, too. It's like these damn studios will never learn to stop meddling with movies unless it's necessary. Yeah, Pinhead did become more of a conventional horror movie villain and kind of a clown in the third film. Though, as you said, he didn't become an outright clown like Freddy. It's just that it was a tad bit out-of-character for him to behave so aloof in the third movie. |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Dec 25, 2018 12:24:16 GMT -8
When it comes to Hellraiser, there's the first three movies and then there's the rest. I've seen up to and including Hellseeker, but from the looks of it the last few films just really went off the rails. It's sad when you see a once good series take a bad tumble like that. But I'm hopeful one day Hellraiser will rebound, as it surely deserves to.
If we finally got the Halloween 6 Producer's Cut all this time later we can surely get the original cut of Hellraiser: Bloodline. It'd be great if they could get Kevin Yagher's involvement with it, allow him to recut the film the way he intended for it to be and allow his original vision to finally be seen. I get the impression Kevin is pretty upset and bitter about the whole ordeal and rightfully so, but this would be a good way for that wrong to finally be righted all this time later.
Given that the Pinhead of the third movie was unbound without Elliott Spencer's spirit to keep him in-check the direction his character took worked in a way, given the man vs. beast storyline that entry had. I seem to recall in Bloodline for whatever reason Pinhead reverted to the way he was in Hellraiser III, which made no sense given that he was reconstituted with Spencer and should be more like he was in the first two movies. Unless of course the original cut explained it.
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Dec 28, 2018 15:05:00 GMT -8
Also found out a hilarious yet awesome connection TFTC and Hellraiser share (sort of) besides Kevin Yagher directing Bloodline; apparently none other than Crypty himself John Kassir voiced a parody of Pinhead called Pinface on an adventure of The Grim Adventures Of Billy And Mandy. In a funny sort of way John has been both Crypty and Pinhead, even if just a parody of the latter. |
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Post by gljbradley on Dec 30, 2018 21:52:07 GMT -8
Also found out a hilarious yet awesome connection TFTC and Hellraiser share (sort of) besides Kevin Yagher directing Bloodline; apparently none other than Crypty himself John Kassir voiced a parody of Pinhead called Pinface on an adventure of The Grim Adventures Of Billy And Mandy. In a funny sort of way John has been both Crypty and Pinhead, even if just a parody of the latter. Really?! I kind of remember Pinface from The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy but I didn't know that John Kassir voiced Pinface. Wow! LOL!!!  |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Dec 30, 2018 22:04:29 GMT -8
Definitely awesome he did so. Hilarious that a kids show like that would also reference such a graphically violent series like Hellraiser. Then again TFTC of all things also got a kids' show of it's own  |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Jan 15, 2019 17:46:54 GMT -8
This is awesome. It's from the 1992 MTV VMAs and aired right around the time Hellraiser III came out, so this was no doubt cross promotion for it at the time. Back when MTV was so cool even good old Pinhead was making appearances.
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Post by gljbradley on Mar 4, 2019 8:21:44 GMT -8
This is awesome. It's from the 1992 MTV VMAs and aired right around the time Hellraiser III came out, so this was no doubt cross-promotion for it at the time. Back when MTV was so cool even good old Pinhead was making appearances. Wow!!! I've never seen that before! That is hilarious and awesome! I'm surprised that Pinhead didn't further threaten David Spade. LOL! |
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Mar 4, 2019 15:18:51 GMT -8
It's awesome how Doug is so dedicated to the role like that, reprising Pinhead for things like MTV (back when they were good) and also on talk show appearances. I recall he appeared in-character on The Tonight Show back in the 90s and I'm trying to find the clips but so far no luck. I'm sure someday it'll surface.
Recently I bought the excellent book on the series, The Hellraiser Films And Their Legacy. It covers up to Hellworld and though sadly lacking in pictures for the most part it's loaded with excellent information on the making of the films and goes very in-depth on their themes that makes you look at them in a new way. It comes highly recommended, especially if you're a fan of the series.
I recently also had a chance to revisit Bloodline, Inferno and Hellseeker. Bloodline I feel is excellent during the past and present segments but the future stuff is silly and feels out of place amidst the rest of the movie and even looks cheap and low-rent; a surefire sign they were last-minute reshoots that had no real thought put into them. Plus, why is Pinhead his bloodthirsty self from the third film when he should be more like he was in the first two, since he supposedly was re-joined with Elliott Spencer's spirit? Made no sense. I actually quite like Inferno, basically a dark noir thriller that somehow manages to fit in just fine with the Hellraiser mythos. Hellseeker I found pretty boring for the most part, though it does have one of my favorite Pinhead quotes: "Welcome to the worst nightmare of all... reality."
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