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Post by Crypt Keeper on Jun 9, 2019 10:58:26 GMT -8
Dark Phoenix surprisingly wasn't too bad (maybe it was just my low expectations), but that said you can tell this current iteration of the X-Men has been stretched as far as it can go. It's a shame things couldn't work out back then between Marvel and Fox. You have to wonder if Fox being so greedy and unwilling to share hurt their X-Men films in the long run as you can tell the series started tiring out after a while.
And for me, any new actor who plays Wolverine will be put in such an unfair spot and compared endlessly with Hugh Jackman, who raised the bar far too highly. For me Logan was the perfect capper not just for Jackman's run as the character but his run in movies in general. Wolverine's tale is done, let him rest in peace and for the other X-Men to take the spotlight in the MCU.
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Post by gljbradley on Jun 14, 2019 23:35:11 GMT -8
Dark Phoenix surprisingly wasn't too bad (maybe it was just my low expectations), but that said you can tell this current iteration of the X-Men has been stretched as far as it can go. It's a shame things couldn't work out back then between Marvel and Fox. You have to wonder if Fox being so greedy and unwilling to share hurt their X-Men films in the long run as you can tell the series started tiring out after a while. And for me, any new actor who plays Wolverine will be put in such an unfair spot and compared endlessly with Hugh Jackman, who raised the bar far too highly. For me Logan was the perfect capper not just for Jackman's run as the character but his run in movies in general. Wolverine's tale is done, let him rest in peace and for the other X-Men to take the spotlight in the MCU. PRECISELY! I think that Fox went about this all wrong. And yes, whomever will be the next Wolverine will be put in an unfair spot in terms of being compared to Hugh.
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Jun 15, 2019 10:39:59 GMT -8
I think the original run of the X-Men films arguably peaked with Days Of Future Past, which I feel would've been a fine send-off for the original run. Apocalypse though not terrible felt very tired and generic, and with Dark Phoenix you can tell they were phoning it in. The upcoming New Mutants is a film that's hard to feel positive about with the two full years it's been pushed back and the extensive reshoots.
Watching Logan again last night, I'm reminded of just what an excellent swansong it is for not just Hugh Jackman as Wolverine but the character in general. End the character's cinematic legacy on a high note like that. Besides, an MCU Wolverine would likely be PG-13 again and after Logan I don't think anyone wants to see a neutered, family-friendly version of the character after we finally got a proper R-rated, unbound version of the character. Let the other X-Men shine in the MCU, Wolverine's tale as far as I'm concerned is done.
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Post by gljbradley on Jun 21, 2019 7:48:18 GMT -8
I think the original run of the X-Men films arguably peaked with Days Of Future Past, which I feel would've been a fine send-off for the original run. Apocalypse though not terrible felt very tired and generic, and with Dark Phoenix you can tell they were phoning it in. The upcoming New Mutants is a film that's hard to feel positive about with the two full years it's been pushed back and the extensive reshoots. Watching Logan again last night, I'm reminded of just what an excellent swansong it is for not just Hugh Jackman as Wolverine but the character in general. End the character's cinematic legacy on a high note like that. Besides, an MCU Wolverine would likely be PG-13 again and after Logan I don't think anyone wants to see a neutered, family-friendly version of the character after we finally got a proper R-rated, unbound version of the character. Let the other X-Men shine in the MCU, Wolverine's tale as far as I'm concerned is done. You said it!!! They should leave Wolverine be.
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Jun 21, 2019 9:00:58 GMT -8
I don't think audiences are ready for a new actor as Wolverine, either. It isn't like recasting Batman or James Bond, because Hugh has become just far too synonymous with the character as he's portrayed him since the beginning and any actor to succeed him in the role will be put in a very unfair, tough spot. Much as I'd like to see Jackman reprise the role, Logan is just too good and fitting a conclusion for the character and I don't want to see that meddled with.
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Post by gljbradley on Jun 21, 2019 13:44:40 GMT -8
I don't think audiences are ready for a new actor as Wolverine, either. It isn't like recasting Batman or James Bond, because Hugh has become just far too synonymous with the character as he's portrayed him since the beginning and any actor to succeed him in the role will be put in a very unfair, tough spot. Much as I'd like to see Jackman reprise the role, Logan is just too good and fitting a conclusion for the character and I don't want to see that meddled with. Spot on. They would have to wait quite a while and make sure that the audience can be eased into a new Wolverine actor in a timely manner.
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Jun 21, 2019 18:43:09 GMT -8
A common complaint with the original X-Men movies is that they were too Wolverine-centric, so for the MCU-era X-Men films they can finally properly focus on the other X-Men and IMO that's a smart route to take. Let Wolverine die with dignity with Logan, it's just too good a send-off to meddle with in my estimation.
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Post by gljbradley on Jun 22, 2019 18:07:34 GMT -8
A common complaint with the original X-Men movies is that they were too Wolverine-centric, so for the MCU-era X-Men films they can finally properly focus on the other X-Men and IMO that's a smart route to take. Let Wolverine die with dignity with Logan, it's just too good a send-off to meddle with in my estimation. I agree.
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Jun 22, 2019 21:57:49 GMT -8
Back to the original subject, it's pretty amazing how back then R-rated films could get toylines and cartoon series aimed at kids. It's one thing for RoboCop and Rambo to do so, but I'm truly astounded at the fact The Toxic Avenger of all things did as well.
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Post by gljbradley on Jul 1, 2019 11:32:51 GMT -8
Back to the original subject, it's pretty amazing how back then R-rated films could get toylines and cartoon series aimed at kids. It's one thing for RoboCop and Rambo to do so, but I'm truly astounded at the fact The Toxic Avenger of all things did as well. Sorry for the late reply. Happy July btw! Yes, it's truly bizarre and surprising that back in the day, they used to produce toys for children from R rated franchises. It's the very definition of an oxymoron. The Robocop, Rambo, Terminator, and even The Toxic Avenger franchises are all not very appropriate for children due to the violent and adult content they have. But that didn't stop children from seeing and enjoying them. Movie studios and toy companies noticed this and decided that they didn't want to leave the children out of the adult-aimed fun. Now, keep in mind that the toys they made for children are of characters who're ultra-violent among other things. And children aren't really supposed to know about things like violence, gore, and sex as of yet. However, here it was where kids were playing with toys in the likenesses of Robocop, The Terminator, the T-1000, etc. I guess that Robocop, Rambo, Terminator, and The Toxic Avenger were such huge hits with children that movie studios and toy companies thought that it was a good idea to make merchandise aimed at younger audiences WHO AREN'T OLD ENOUGH TO SEE THESE FILMS. And due to how some parents are, they didn't think how it may not be appropriate to do this and how "it might give the kids ideas to behave violently like these characters". Again, it's not illegal for children to see R rated movies but a lot of those films tend to be inappropriate and there are some children who are able to handle adult content while other children can't which is why necessary caution should be taken by the parents. I bet if they were still doing that today, and they probably are or they're trying to, they would probably make Deadpool and John Wick toys for children. Heck, let's add It/Pennywise into the mix while we're at it! Also, another crazy thing about this is that it affects other types of films due to how some parents tend to freak out on any little thing. With the Happy Meal toys from Batman Returns, they had to recall them because parents complained that the movie was too sexual (due to Catwoman) and too violent. And the kicker with that is that the film is PG-13!!!!!!
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Jul 1, 2019 13:53:46 GMT -8
There was actually supposed to be an Aliens animated series back in the early 90s called Operation: Aliens. It never saw the light of day, but the Kenner Aliens toyline based the designs off of the cartoon. It goes to show how popular these characters and monsters became with the general public that despite the R-rating and graphic content, kids were still seeing them.
I remember hearing about the Batman Returns controversy. Which sadly led to the major watering down of the next two Batman films. I actually don't think Batman Forever is that bad a movie but then you get to Batman & Robin, which was the death of the original series. Got to wonder if not for the backlash Batman Returns got, how the original canon may have continued.
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Post by gljbradley on Jul 4, 2019 8:25:12 GMT -8
There was actually supposed to be an Aliens animated series back in the early 90s called Operation: Aliens. It never saw the light of day, but the Kenner Aliens toyline based the designs off of the cartoon. It goes to show how popular these characters and monsters became with the general public that despite the R-rating and graphic content, kids were still seeing them. I remember hearing about the Batman Returns controversy. Which sadly led to the major watering down of the next two Batman films. I actually don't think Batman Forever is that bad a movie but then you get to Batman & Robin, which was the death of the original series. Got to wonder if not for the backlash Batman Returns got, how the original canon may have continued. I vaguely heard about the unreleased Aliens animated series. That's very interesting that the Aliens toys were based on the designs from the cartoon. Yes, it definitely goes to show how popular these types of characters became with the mass public despite being R rated. Nowadays, they'd be crazy to try and market popular R rated characters to children like that again. We have too many parents who're already a little too extreme when it comes to content. Nowadays, they'd blow their stacks if this kind of marketing happens. Exactly right. In the end, it ultimately backfired when they watered down the next two Batman films after Batman Returns and almost a decade later into the next century, they had to go back dark with Batman, and the result was Batman Begins. I happen to LOVE Batman Forever. It's a guilty pleasure of mine. But, Batman & Robin was TERRIBLE. I'll admit that I liked it at first. But after a while, it didn't sit well with me. There was something about it that felt negative. I was around 6 or 7 when this came out and even at a very young age, I felt that there was something not right about this film. I'm glad that I wasn't the only one who felt this way. Though, I personally think that Batman, as a property and a character, is versatile when it comes to tone. He can be outright goofy and lighthearted like the Adam West Batman, the Brave and the Bold Batman, and even the low-key hilarious Lego Batman. He can be a mixture of light-hearted and dark like the Kevin Conroy animated Batman and to a certain extent, Michael Keaton's Batman. Or he can be really dark like Christian Bale's Batman and "Batman: Damned" Batman.
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Jul 4, 2019 12:12:20 GMT -8
It goes to show how much more loose and laidback things were back then. I'm thinking likely the backlash to violent entertainment when it was blamed for things like school shootings is probably why there's no more attempts to try to market R-rated properties to kids, anymore. I absolutely don't believe violent entertainment is the cause of real-life violence, but if I were to guess why R-rated material never gets aimed at kids anymore, this would be it.
You're right about Batman being a very versatile character who can work in different types of tones and storylines. While I do enjoy the occasional more funny Batman, I think in Batman & Robin they went way overboard with it to the point it was just unbearable. Arguably in Batman v Superman they went far too dark to the point it was actually unintentionally comical at times.
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Post by gljbradley on Jul 7, 2019 19:37:41 GMT -8
It goes to show how much more loose and laidback things were back then. I'm thinking likely the backlash to violent entertainment when it was blamed for things like school shootings is probably why there are no more attempts to try to market R-rated properties to kids, anymore. I absolutely don't believe violent entertainment is the cause of real-life violence, but if I were to guess why R-rated material never gets aimed at kids anymore, this would be it. You're right about Batman being a very versatile character who can work in different types of tones and storylines. While I do enjoy the occasional more funny Batman, I think in Batman & Robin they went way overboard with it to the point it was just unbearable. Arguably in Batman v Superman they went far too dark to the point it was actually unintentionally comical at times. Exactly. For me personally, I don't think they should've marketed toys based off of R rated properties toward children in the first place. As I've said before, it's an oxymoron and it can cause confusion to some parents and their children who don't pay attention to adult content in certain films that are R rated. But the violence that unfortunately keeps happening in America like school and mass shootings are caused by things like the failure of properly raising children and teaching them that violence is not okay. It also shows how some parents don't take responsibility for the way they raise their children. You said it! As much as I also enjoy Batman being occasionally funny, they definitely took the hilarity way too far with Batman & Robin. That version Batman was lackluster, uninteresting, and rather unlikeable(and I adore George Clooney btw). I can't truly pinpoint a lot of good qualities about George Clooney's Batman except that he's handsome. And yes, Batman v Superman definitely took it way too far in terms of going dark. This version of Batman was psychotic, diabolical, and unlikeable AF to the point where I found him detestable, and I didn't think it was possible to actually HATE Batman. Sure, there have been times where he has acted like an asshole, yet he eventually made up for it later. But in this instance, he was just a REALLY HORRIBLE person. I get that he had been through so much shit and all, but the way he behaved was inexcusable. Now, Superman wasn't on his best behavior in this movie either, but of the two, Batman was worse. Like Clooney's Batman, I can't pinpoint a lot of good qualities about Ben Affleck's Batman except that he's also handsome, he's an excellent fighter, and he has better gadgets. This version of Batman was a borderline villain who was a loose cannon and a lot of fans couldn't take that. And I think that's one of the main reasons why, to this day, people are still rightfully disappointed and upset over the film. You have to be extremely careful with how you handle characters, especially iconic characters like Batman. Both of these cases show what happens when you don't balance out Batman in terms of tone and depth, and don't make him at least likable. Yes, Batman is supposed to be dark, brooding, and serious but not a complete insufferable, despicable, unlikeable piece of shit. For example, Christian Bale's Batman was dark, brooding, and serious but he was still likable.
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Post by Crypt Keeper on Jul 7, 2019 21:37:18 GMT -8
It's a scapegoat when violent entertainment is blamed for real-life violence and takes away from the actual cause of it in real-life. Although RoboCop is an extremely violent film, the violence in it has a purpose to show just how horrific it is in real-life. Murphy's death is just horrific and gut-wrenching to watch, especially the unrated version. Even as a kid it was hard not to be affected by this and see that in real-life when someone is shot to death it's horrendous.
With the Batman of the Burton and Nolan films as well as the classic 90s animated series, we had a dark and brooding Batman but one who still came off as likeable and you could tell he was a good guy beneath it all, albeit one with a hard edge. I don't blame either Clooney or Affleck for the misfires they worked with when they were Batman as I feel both are good actors and would've been good as either character, they just had very poor material to work with.
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